Israel and Palestine

I really didn't want to publish anything about this - wherever you go, people have an opinion on this and usually it is quite... strident. Strident enough at least to make reasoned debate hard and changing of viewpoints in the light of cogent argument and good information harder.

I think that the echo chambers of the internet only reinforce and ossify opinion really - you read articles, blogs and forums that mostly agree with your point of view, occasionally punctuated with a straw man or an 
'outrageous' article from the other side designed to show how foolish they are.

However I was talking to a few people and they mainly mentioned how sad it all was, and how both sides are really to blame for the conflict, which did raise my hackles a little bit. Why?

Because you only need to look at how the Israelis operate compared to Hamas, and what they say to see the difference between the two sides, and who is in the wrong here.

Mark Steyn puts the Hamas position as more extreme than the Nazi's, at least in what they say Link -

But Hamas spells it out, in giant-size neon lettering: Its charter pledges that Islam will "obliterate" Israel, with Article 22 blaming the Jews for the French Revolution, both world wars, the League of Nations ...oh, and the Lions and the Rotary Club. 

Their spokesman - the man who is supposed to be able to articulate their position clearly and accurately 
 Link

 The Israelis concentrate on killing children,” Osama Hamdan, a top Hamas representative in Lebanon, said on Al-Quds TV. “I believe that this is engraved in the historical Zionist and Jewish mentality, which has become addicted to the killing of women and children.”“We all remember how the Jews used to slaughter Christians in order to mix their blood in their holy matzos,” he continued, referring to the traditional unleavened bread that Jews eat during Passover. 

Their actions - firing missiles from or near schools and hotels Link or UN shelters and buildings link . They build tunnels from Gaza into Israel so their militants can attack civilians and cause the deaths of 160 Palestinian children building them link . They hide rockets in UN buildings including schools and hospitals Link and then generate outrage when civilians are killed or injured by return fire.

Hamas say Israel is invading Gaza, without mentioning the 2200 rocket attack into Israel proceeding it. Link They say that they don't use civilians as shields, but then shoot more rockets from hopsitals and threaten journalists who report it Link . They fund TV shows promoting racial hatred and genocide to their own children Link Link.

Hamas isn't beyond using children and the mentally disabled as suicide bombers either Link and Link . 

Then people wonder why Israel and Egypt keep Gaza blockaded - because giving these guys access to more weaponry from Iran and others Link is not an option, especially when even their humanitarian aid is often filled full of new materials for rockets and terror attacksLink

Now this doesn't mean Israel and the Israelis have never done anything wrong at all. No nation can claim to do so, especially one that has fought 3 wars against its neighbours and 2 intifadas in the last 65 years.

However, you can see the differences in methods and goals between Israel and Hamas - one tries to preserve lives via building bomb shelters and missile defence systems for their people, and warning areas about to come under attack via leaflets, sms, warning shots and loudhailer. The other builds tunnels using children to send terror attacks into communities, uses suicide bombers and rockets to deliberately target civilians and calls for the actual genocide of their opponents as a central tenet.

You might see why I wouldn't call the two sides equal, or as bad as each other.

Now I know a number of people have a very different viewpoint, seeing Israel as racist/genocidal and intolerant and support/tolerate the above or excuse it away.

Here is an example Link - the comments are instructive as well.

And I'll leave it there. People can and should make up their own minds.

Hat tip - Tim Blair Andrew Bolt Breitbart Times of Israel and others.